in the waterbury conneticut area there was a circut overseer named caramelous (greek name not sure of spelling).
this brother more than 30 years back was having all the congregation servants removed because they where over weight.
i guess they used not moderate in habits (eating too much) as a scriptural reason.
I remember some of the brothers talking about this guy - Caramelous - he had been our CO just before I got the 'truth' in about 1970 - in Indiana. Probably same guy.
Does anyone remember Gerald Grizzle C.O? He was here in the early 70's - I kinda liked him on a personal level - of course i was young and dumb!
Jeff
on page 164- 166 , in the chapter titled " double standards" subheading " two sorts of weights for measuring".
the administration of the headquarters of jehovah's witnesses many decades ago decided that, because of the exsisting law, jehovah's witnesses in mexico would present themsevles , not as a religious organization, but as a "cultural" orginazation.
the local corporation there formed " la torre del vigia,was so registered with the government of mexico(footnote).
In the write-up in the Awake that kwin posted it was pretty clear how they sidestepped with half-truths. This is a common practice I have seen - witnesses could have been registered as a religion all those years - and got the benefit of that (if that is what you would call it) - but instead were a 'cultural' group. Yet they make is sound to those who have no infor besides what they read here (that is virtually all witnesses) - as though the 'religion' was banned all that time, when it was done to pretect property - disgusting.
Like one of the previous posters - this was one of the things that turned the tide on me leaving - this is just total dishonesty -who do the scriptures say is the 'Father of the Lie'?
Jeff
i read the draw close to jehovah book because a jehovahs witness told me that it had some ?deep?
spiritual information in it.
the book appears, at first glance, to be all about knowing jehovah god and his attributes.
Good review Sirona - Thanx
This comment in an old Watchtower sums up what they want people to put their faith in:
*** Watchtower 1964 May 1 p.277-8 Building a Firm Foundation in Christ ***
8 God's Word is the basis of our faith. As we pore over its pages our mind is communing with God's. Our faith is established and strengthened. We are "always ready to make a defense" by offering "a reason for the hope" that we hold, and we are thereby equipped to teach others the way of life. (1 Pet. 3:15; 2 Tim. 2:2) Why, though, is such emphasis placed on "accurate" knowledge? Why should such care be exercised in our study of the columns of The Watchtower, and of our application of the Scripture texts to the material under consideration? It is through the columns of The Watchtower that Jehovah provides direction and constant Scriptural counsel to his people, and it requires careful study and attention to details in order to apply this information, to get a full understanding of the principles involved, and to assure ourselves of right thinking on these matters.
Jeff
quite often when reading some of the topics and posts i see comments about how all the big-wigs at the wtbts care only about the printing company, etc.
i have been accused of being a little too naive or trusting in the past, but i tend to think that even a lot of the higher-ups in the kh's and even at bethel believe that it is in fact the one true religion.
i tend to believe that a very small percentage of them figure that it's just a way to make money, etc.. what do you think?
I think that perhaps the psychological need for the WTS to be "the truth" is even greater for the leadership than it is for the followers...to the point of self-delusion...despite having all the facts at their disposal.
Ray Franz confirms that over and over again - and look how he was treated for beginning to see thru the nonsense while at GB - yes they think that they have the truth - although if any ever look around too hard they will have to know better - wouldn't they?
Blind lead the blind!
Jeff
my husband has an outline for a funeral talk from when he was an elder.
it instructs the speaker, "this talk should provide a fine witness concerning the truth, rather than unduly eulogizing the deceased.".
how's that for licking the plate clean?.
They also have very specific rules on who can do a funeral - who you can do a funeral for - how long it should take -ect - just more legalism at work!
Jeff
i never thought i would be looking for a new church but i am.
does anyone have any recommendations?.
i am looking into the unitarian church.
Sandy -
I always felt precisely the same way - but here I am doing the same - I owe part of that to LittleToe who made that reccomendation to me privately -
I am reading a book that describes most churches and a concise, but brief, description of the beliefs of each one -It is titled; Handbook of Denominations in the United States by Frank S Mead.
I found it in my local library - I hope this helps. Then I suppose one could check the website of that particular group to see if it looks compatible.
Jeff
so often , on this board, we see imposters claiming to be interested in learning the truth about the "truth".
they may seem to genuinely want to know things and they might ask thought-provoking questions.....so how do you know if the person you're dealing with is the real deal or not??
any tips to help us know who those "fake apostates" are??
candilynuts said:
i dont like the label apostate
I never did either - but if u think about it didn't the WTS 'label' everthing? It was part of the judgementalism that rules supreme - elder, pioneer, ms, co, do, gb, weak, strong, active, inactive, in the truth, worldly, pagan, on and on. Every label gave u a mental picture of how to treat, love, hate, ignore or otherwise judge the person on the recieving end of that label. Apostate is a simple term - it means to leave basically - but they have made us a mental image of 'evil slave' - haing God and his people ect.
Hard to get over those mental pics for most I think -
By the way I am a real 'apostate' - a good one - most witnesses would like to be as good as a lot of these 'apostates' are on this site -
Jeff
so often , on this board, we see imposters claiming to be interested in learning the truth about the "truth".
they may seem to genuinely want to know things and they might ask thought-provoking questions.....so how do you know if the person you're dealing with is the real deal or not??
any tips to help us know who those "fake apostates" are??
IMHO it is the WTBTS that is the only true apostate involved here. It is that organization's 'rebellion' against the real 'truth' of the Bible, and the love that Christ showed, and the Christian spirit of freedom that Paul stated would come from Christ, that has created this whole issue, isn't it?
So at best, we posting 'apostates' are just really apostates from the real apostasy.... did that make sense? So those who pretend to be of our sort, are still among the apostates - we have apostasized from the apostates! Does that make us the 'truth', and the WTS the apostates?
Jeff
bit of background.
i grew up as a jw i left the church when i was 14 because a ministerial servant who was conducting a one on one baptism study with me said that i couldn't ballance my dreams of being a professional singer with the so called "truth".
i stopped the study and told my mom i no longer wanted to be a witness.
Nagging doubts were in the back of my head about some things -and it felt good to have that cleared up. I didn't have to feel such anger at the local elders for the lack of love they displayed - they were just playing puppet to the WTS - so why should I expect them to act like Christ?
I was angry and still am after a year - I put my whole heart into this organization for 32 years - it was like waking up to find that all the dreams were wrong and empty - and now I had 32 less years to live. I still wish to be a Christian - but I cannot trust religion - the WT did that to me - so now the confusion of how to put life back together again. No friends - no career - no hobbies - and most my life behind me now -
As one xjw emailed me; thankfully your wife is with you on this - I thank God daily for that! Amen
Jeff
every time i speak to an active jw in my congregation, they don't give me the impression that they are slowing down.
if i say that i see less jw's on the street knocking on doors, they will say that many are working full time.
they will also probably say that the hall is always full of people.. i don't go to the hall anymore, so i can't say if the hall is full or not, but i notice that there are way less jw's going door to door than before in this area.
I think that part of it might be the angle of sight - from the outside looking in.
When we were 'in' - we thought that the organization was the 'center of the universe' - that no one could miss the work we were doing and the hope of salvation we were offering. Now - from the 'outside' we see just how little activity is really going on there. I have found that it was just an inflated view of ourselves that made it seem as though we were really busy - when in reality not so much is happening.
The comments about the 'spanish speaking' areas is one that I suspect the org will work hard at. The effect may be less than they expect. Most mexican/spanish speaking people that I know are very family oriented - once the community gets smell of the family dividing effects of the org it will be slow growth.
Jeff
